The Five-Minute Interview Test That Saved a $5 Billion CEO From Bad Hires

Perfect resumes hide imperfect people.

Lew Frankfort learned this the hard way. As CEO of Coach for 29 years, he watched the luxury brand grow from 6 million to 5 billion in annual revenue. But even with that track record, he kept making hiring mistakes that cost him sleep.

So he built something better. A screening method so simple it takes five minutes, yet powerful enough to catch the red flags most interviews miss.

It's called the mirror test, and it works because it reveals the one thing resumes can't fake: self-awareness.

In this article:

• The Problem With Traditional Interviews
• The Mirror Test
• Why This Works
• Self-Awareness Is The Filter
• How Other CEOs Screen for Self-Awareness
• How to Apply This
• Frankfort's Full System
• Why This Matters More for Your Business
• Your Next Steps

The Problem With Traditional Interviews

Most interviews follow the same script. Background. Resume. Experience. Accomplishments. References. Everyone says nice things.

Then three months later, you're dealing with client escalations, team conflicts, and the growing realization that this "perfect" hire is your biggest headache.

Traditional interviews test the wrong things. They measure what people have done, not how they think about what they've done.

For high ticket businesses, that gap costs real money. One bad hire creates rework that eats your margins, triggers escalations that damage client relationships, burns out your top performers, and blows deals you can't afford to lose.

The Mirror Test

After decades of refining his approach, Frankfort developed what he calls "immersive interviewing." The full version includes an 80-skill assessment covering everything from financial acumen to street smarts to sense of style.

But the heart of his system is simpler. Two questions that take five minutes.

After the usual background discussion, Frankfort asks candidates to name a current or recent boss, then answer two questions:

Question 1: "Rate your boss's emotional intelligence on a scale of 1 to 10."

Question 2: "What would your boss say are your strengths and growth opportunities?"

That's it. Two questions that create a mirror.

Why This Works

Most candidates rate their boss a 7, 8, or 9. If they go lower, Frankfort asks why. The number matters less than the reasoning.

What you're listening for is specificity. Do they give concrete examples tied to real outcomes? Or vague complaints about "communication styles"?

The second question reveals everything.

People who lack self-awareness give generic answers. "My boss would say I'm a hard worker who needs to manage my time better." It sounds reasonable. It's also meaningless.

People who actually know themselves get specific. "She'd say I close deals fast but sometimes move before getting the full technical spec, which creates rework for the delivery team."

See the difference?

The first answer could describe anyone. The second answer reveals pattern recognition, ownership, and the ability to see themselves through someone else's eyes. Those three things predict whether someone can be coached, whether they'll take responsibility, whether they'll fit your culture.

As Frankfort explains it: "Many people don't have the language or the inclination to describe themselves in full dimension, so this angle would help you express yourself more precisely. It would also force a level of honesty, especially if you knew that your boss was a reference I might talk with."

Self-Awareness Is The Filter

In your high ticket business, self-awareness protects everything else.

People who can't see their own patterns keep repeating the same mistakes. People who blame others for every problem poison team culture. People who think they're already perfect can't be coached, which means they'll cap out exactly where they are today.

The mirror test catches all three before you make an offer.

How Other CEOs Screen for Self-Awareness

Frankfort isn't alone in prioritizing self-awareness during hiring. About 80% of Fortune 500 companies now use personality assessments to vet upper-level talent, according to a 2022 study from Ladders.

Julia Hartz, CEO of $225 million ticketing company Eventbrite, uses personality assessments to measure how her leadership style pairs with candidates and direct reports. She looks at everyday behavior, stress responses, and core motivators.

"Then I'm actually able to draw a through line between my test to a candidate's test, and using AI can assess the places where it's going to cause friction, and where are we not going to show up great together," Hartz told Fortune.

Loren Castle, CEO of refrigerated cookie dough empire Sweet Loren's, uses personality assessments that analyze skills, thinking patterns, feelings, and behaviors. Castle looks for core traits: positive attitude, passion, and teamwork skills.

"It's hard to hire the right team. That's the hardest part of this: to really understand what your culture is and attract the best people," Castle told Fortune. "We're really mindful now when we're building out teams."

How to Apply This

You don't need fancy software. Just add two questions to your interview process.

Step 1: Add the questions to your scorecard

Use them for any role that touches clients. Lead generation. Solution architects. Senior strategists. Anyone who affects trust and pricing power.

Step 2: Require concrete examples

When someone says "I'm good at listening," ask for a specific time that skill changed an outcome. If they can't give you one, that's your answer.

Step 3: Look for ownership vs. blame

Do they own their mistakes or point fingers? Do they spot patterns in their own behavior? Can they see themselves the way others see them?

The candidates who take responsibility grow. The ones who don't, don't.

Step 4: Track what matters after you hire

Time to billable work. Rework hours. Escalation count. Client satisfaction on their first three deliverables.

If you're still seeing the same problems in month three, your interview questions aren't filtering the right things.

Frankfort's Full System

Frankfort spent 46 years at Coach (29 as CEO), scaling it from $6 million to a multibillion-dollar empire. Now he's chief executive of investment firm Benvolio Group, which works with consumer brands like Veronica Beard, Body Armor, and Bogg Bagg.

His full interview process has three stages:

1. Background interview (15-20 minutes)
2. Mirror test (the two questions)
3. 80-skill self-assessment

The 80-skill assessment covers everything: ability to judge people, courage, curiosity, financial acumen, investigative skills, sense of style, street smarts, integrity, self-motivation.

"Individually and collectively, your rankings would offer insight, telling me where to lean in for more information and clarity," Frankfort explained in Harvard Business Review. "I was looking for clusters of similarly rated competencies, for outliers that might suggest a concern, and for dichotomies that reveal where I needed to probe to get a deeper truth."

Frankfort admits he's still partial to charismatic, confident candidates. But this detailed strategy helps counter his personal bias and assess growth potential, not just current skills.

"My immersive interviewing framework routineized my natural curiosity about people and helped me avoid the trap of making assumptions about skills and overlooking major weaknesses," he said.

Why This Matters More for Your Business

In volume businesses, you can absorb a few bad hires. One person out of 50 underperforming doesn't sink the ship.

You don't have that luxury.

When you're charging 10K, 50K, $100K+ for your services, every client interaction matters. One bad hire in a client-facing role can cost you multiples of their salary in lost deals and damaged reputation.

When you nail hiring, you protect your margins (no rework or escalations), keep your best people (they're not burning out covering for weak performers), and build the reputation that lets you charge what you're worth.

Businesses that skip this step keep fixing the same hiring mistakes over and over.

Your Next Steps

If you're hiring (or planning to):

1. Add the two mirror test questions to your interview scorecard today.

2. Brief your interview team on what to listen for. Specificity. Ownership. Pattern recognition.

3. Set up tracking for new hires. Time to billable work. Rework hours. Escalation count. Client satisfaction on first three deliverables.

4. Review your last three hires. Would they have passed the mirror test? What patterns are you seeing now? Use that data to refine your screening.

Five minutes on the mirror test could save you months of management headaches and thousands in lost productivity.

When every relationship matters, that's the difference between sustainable growth and constantly fighting fires you shouldn't have lit.